Our next interview is with the man who oversaw products from hundereds of different companies, and was the driving force behind the Lord of the Rings licenses. 

John Mayo held many different titles during his long carrer with New Line Cinema and Warner. From LOTR to the Hobbit films, John oversaw all products and gives great insight on those wonderful days working in the industry. I sat down with John to ask some questions. We will be making recurring visits with John, as the site progresses, in order to cover as many topics as possible from a source so experienced.  

How did you get your start in the industry?

It was certainly a twist of fate. I was living in Los Angeles with no intentions of ever leaving and came to New York City for a funeral. While here, I reunited with relatives I hadn’t seen in many years and I ended up looking at job postings just for the fun of it. The job market in NYC at the time was much better than it was in L.A. I sent a few resumes out and secured a job at a very large licensed t-shirt company called Changes. I did t-shirt separations, production work and catalogs for everything from Looney Tunes to Star Wars. After a couple years, a pre-press house recruited me. From there I eventually left to work for myself doing freelance design and production for a number of clients from band to movie merchandise and everything in between. Through clients and events, I had met some of the licensing folks at New Line Cinema. One day, one of my clients called me and said there was a job I might be interested in at New Line – that could utilize all of my creative and production background and especially my passion for films and merchandise.

I interviewed at New Line Cinema in October 2000 for the role of Creative Director in the Licensing and Merchandising Department. A small department that was ramping up for what I was told during my interview would be their “Star Wars”…The Lord of the Rings. I thought to myself…”yeah, right.” I accepted the job offer and started on October 23, 2000. Little did I know what I was facing in the journey ahead. It was both exciting, difficult yet rewarding every step of the way. I was following Frodo on his journey to Mount Doom. I am grateful for being the one chosen and getting the opportunity to be, in what became, such an important role.

With the licensing department being so small – it allowed us to wear many hats and gave me untethered access to work directly with Peter Jackson, Richard Taylor (and Weta Workshop), Barrie Osborne, Weta Digital, the entire cast and especially Mark Ordesky (who brought the film in and was the glue that held so much together). The cast quickly realized not only the passion I brought to the property they were so heavily vested in, but also…honesty and integrity. It may sound corny, but it’s an industry full of unscrupulous people that will say/do anything to get ahead. Each and every cast member knew they could always count on me to do what I said. We forged a strong bond and for as long as I worked on The Lord of the Rings - we always had a great working relationship. It was such a great position to be in and having all of their support was incredible.

What was your role during your time working on The Lord of the Rings merchandise?

I was hired as Creative Director. I was the first in-house creative for New Line Cinema Licensing and the first person in the New York City office with a Mac! I had to read the scripts and gain intimate knowledge of everything backwards and forwards. I had to review thousands of photos to pull imagery for prospective partners to use on merchandise as well as all types of reference imagery to provide to partners to create their products.

The first daunting task was to complete an initial style guide to get things rolling (a topic for another time). Once we got that into licensee hands, we embarked on full style guides for all three films with a visit to New Zealand in August 2001 where we had a week of meetings and gathering reference. I developed the packaging look along with Toy Biz for mass market product lines and with Sideshow for collectible products. We had to plan ahead and think how everything applies to the three films, as we needed to keep things fresh and moving forward with each release and hopefully beyond the theatrical windows. This was implemented on a global scale as we created and established the brand.

I was also responsible for product development on a global basis. I handled all of the hard goods personally (toys, collectibles, etc.) and oversaw a small, but growing staff to develop merchandise in all categories. One day, early on, I was called into our department heads’ office – I was asked “do you like video games?”  I said, yes. I was then put in charge of video game development beginning with the Two Towers game working with Electronic Arts. Over the years, I’ve worked beginning to end on 19 different interactive games.

Three years in, I was promoted to Vice President of Product Development. Four years after that, I was promoted to Senior Vice President of Creative and Product Development. New Line was a bit crazy with the titles – for example, our department head was “Senior Executive Vice President of Worldwide Licensing and Merchandising.” Quite the long title!

In January of 2008, I took a week off to welcome the birth of our first child. On the day of my return to the office, I was immediately called into my boss’ office and told “bad things are going to happen today”. Our parent company, Time Warner, decided to fold us into Warner Bros as a cost cutting measure to raise the stock price. They killed New Line Cinema which had just celebrated its 40th anniversary. WB sent a beautiful email welcoming all 650 of us…. only to begin the mass layoffs over the next couple of months. I was one of six people in the New York office offered to stay on. A couple of execs from Warner Bros Interactive Entertainment had shown up and wanted to know who worked on the video games. They didn’t care about anything else, sadly. They offered me a job to stay on and were happy for me to work in their New York office (which was three blocks away).

I helped with the transition to WB and continue my work on LotR and of course – the upcoming Hobbit films. My title was downgraded to “’Vice President, Product Development, The Lord of the Rings & The Hobbit” – yes, that was the full title on my business card! I’m sure that was done purposefully as they had no intention of keeping me on staff once the Hobbit was finished. WB Consumer Products felt they wrote the book on large merchandising programs, but in time, I quickly experienced how reluctant they were to invest time and to learn about “The Lord of the Rings”. Most employees had never seen the films and had little interest in them. I ended up working for two divisions: Warner Interactive and WB Consumer Products – as well as consulting with every division of WB that needed help acclimating to Middle-earth. That lasted six years until they let my contract run out with the last Hobbit film and showed me the door. Beginning to end, I spent 15 years working on Middle-earth across two companies and with over 350 partners worldwide. I believe we generated about $4 billion dollars in merchandise revenue. I am friends to this day with the cast and crew. It was an experience that will never be duplicated and I am forever grateful for the opportunity to help the Fellowship on this grand journey.

Did you have a chance to go to New Zealand during the filming? If so, can you tell us about the experience?

This may or may not surprise you – we were never allowed to be in New Zealand when they were filming. Apparently they didn’t want any disruptions or distractions to the production. I understood that. They were just wrapping a year of filming when I started and whenever they did pickups, they didn’t want us to visit as there was great pressure to focus and get everything they needed to complete each film. I would go during off times. New Line sent me once, and I was told to get everything I needed for all three films because “you won’t be going back”. The week I was there, I was given complete access to everything. We had meetings and spent time with every department and everyone was extremely helpful and generous with their time. Richard Taylor and everyone at Weta Workshop were incredibly helpful and inspiring every step of the way. Richard helped fast track us to understand fully, the world that they created – which was truly amazing as you know. We photocopied thousands of items, filled up a crate of reference and Fed Ex’d it back to my office in New York City (thankfully it didn’t get lost!) Richard and I are still close today. It’s a friendship that has been forged for life.

Warner Bros, on the other hand, was more open to frequent visits (also, not during filming). For some reason they were under the impression that I had lived there during the production (I explained to them, “no – I had to be in New York doing the work!”) Once onboard with WB and The Hobbit was getting underway – in May 2009 I took an entourage of WB execs, marketing, video game producers and lawyers (15 total in this entourage) to meet Peter Jackson (and Guillermo Del Toro) as I had the relationships with everyone on the ground. It was quite an interesting time. I was introduced to GDT and we hit it off immediately. He is very much into merch of course – and I was invited to his house to discuss plans and a few hours beforehand, I was called by one of the producers and told “Guillermo will see you next time you’re here – he needs to finish the first script!” Anyway, next time I went, GDT had left the production and Peter Jackson had taken the reins and started everything from scratch. None of the designs that GDT had developed were used with Peter Jackson at the helm.

Understandably – I had seen most of the GDT teamwork and I felt it was too “Hellboy” and “Pan’s Labyrinth” – which was amazing, but not the Middle-earth that had been established in The Lord of the Rings films.

We went a number of times with WBIE to discuss videogame plans, play demos, etc…with Peter Jackson. It was always a great time as everyone I knew from LotR was working on the Hobbit movies. I never had breakfast, lunch or dinner alone!

You put together the packaging standardization program for LOTR. Can you talk about that process?

When I got to New Line, Toy Biz was already working with New Line to come up with packaging concepts. The concept they were hanging on was a red book. They were trying to figure out a way to collage the entire cast of characters on the front and it looked like a terribly busy mash-up. After a few weeks of trying to work with the direction they were heading, I brought up the point that this is not book merchandise. We are creating merchandise based on films that have an extensive culture and rich design. I asked to see what other packaging systems they were pondering before the book concept. Of the couple options they had – I pushed to do the “half moon” structure that ended up being used. I had a design firm in the UK create multiple versions of the One Ring, one of which was used on the packing. I had recently received the artwork for the map of Middle-earth that we commissioned with artist Daniel Reeve. We had to come up with (bold) colors for the packing to stand out on store shelves. In an early discussion with Richard Taylor and the films’ art department – they had said they felt the first film color tone was green (like grass and Hobbiton), the second film felt brown and burgundy (like much of Rohan), and the third film (lava) and ashen black (Mount Doom). I wrapped the map around the packaging and tinted it green. We selected which characters would be consistent on the box, duo-toned them, and updated it for each movie. It was not rocket science and not the best situation to be under the gun designing packaging (plus we had too many cooks in the kitchen to satisfy), but we were very late and close to jeopardizing the delivery of toys on store shelves. When we got to the third film, I had made a beautiful mock up of the dark grey/black packaging with lava rock texture and thin rivers of lava running through it. I sent it to Peter Jackson by way of email and he wrote back pretty quickly, let’s make the packaging blue for Gondor. At first I was quite upset with the art direction change, but my boss welcomed the idea of being able to use a brighter color like blue.  In the end, it is what you know so well. Even after the films, I had to keep refreshing the packaging annually so that new merch didn’t feel like old merch.

Can you tell us about the product approval process? What was involved?

Well, keep in mind that it was 20 years ago. Everything was done through shipping - UPS/FedEx and fax machines (remember those?). There are multiple submission/review stages on all products. We had a standardized form that had to be filled out and submitted with each separate product and stage. Beginning with line lists, then conceptual drawings, then sculpted prototypes, then paint masters and even the packaging and marketing materials - all had to go through the approval process.

Prototypes were either messengered or shipped to us. We’d have to carefully unpack the prototypes, assemble them if they were in pieces, review them, write up constructive feedback and then fax the form back to the company so they would know what they needed to do. We spend a lot of time unpacking and repacking all kinds of products.

Most of the cast had some sort of approval rights. The main cast members had full head, body and accessory approval. Others had likeness (head) approval only. After we did our internal review and felt it was ready to present to the talent – we’d package it up carefully and send it to them. We also had to include a return shipping label as we had to get these prototypes back as well, so lots of shipping went on.

Fast forward to the Hobbit films 10 years later, WB had everything automated online. A licensee could digitally send pictures and fill out all of the paperwork online and then it would get routed through all the hands that needed to see it as well as the cast if they had approval rights. A much faster and more efficient process, but you don’t get to see a product in person until it’s a final product – so in my opinion, it’s not ideal and could result in errors/missed details, etc…

For FotR - I shipped the first round of figure prototypes out to the cast and I got a phone call from Elijah Wood and Sean Astin. They received their figures and Elijah went over to Sean’s house and they called me together to review and comment on their first figures. The first thing I heard when I answered the phone was the two of them screaming “We’re action figures! We’re action figures! Once they calmed down, they proceeded to critique each other's figure prototypes. It was absolutely awesome. They had spent so much time together during the production, that Sean was reviewing Frodo’s figure and Elijah was reviewing Sam’s figure. How cool is that?!! A short time later, I got calls from Viggo, Liv, Ian, JRD, Orlando,….etc….everyone! They wanted to talk to me personally. They were all so vested in their characters and it was very important for everything to be the best it could possibly be. Over the years, this continued as the norm for most of them. There were a few like Cate Blanchett, Hugo Weaving and Mirando Otto that had their people relay feedback to me…so I developed strong relationships with those gatekeepers. Everyone was willing to help in just about anyway. It was a good position to be in, but I had to make sure that we (and our licensees) delivered. That was at times the most difficult, as I had to always push partners to make things better, more accurate, more authentic. I think we delivered.

About how many different companies were licensed to produce items for the films?

At the height of LotR during the theatrical releases, we had 350 partners worldwide. We did everything from toys to games to sausages (yes, we had licensed Sam’s sausages in Poland). I have to say, every single company that stayed on for all three movies shared the passion for the property like I did. The numbers lessened after the films released, but not as much as they normally would have and of course, WB signed some new partners including Lego – which we had tried for years. At the time of the first films, Lego felt LotR was not for kids, but they would be interested only if we ended up making the Hobbit… So we were finalizing that in our last days as New Line and handed it over to WB on a golden platter to take all the credit! At least I got to work on those sets and video games while at WB!

What was the craziest product that was considered, but was not made?

Furniture – yes, there was a licensee in Europe that wanted to make furniture. They made a dining room set that was about $60,000 (I think) and was inspired by Treebeard. The problem I had with this, was that it looked like none of the furniture in the films. There was such a great opportunity to make furniture replicas/reproductions and they didn’t see the value in that. Sadly, I don’t think they sold their dining room set and ceased being a licensee. Another notable mention – a chopper – there was a company in Europe (Germany I think) that built a custom, hand painted LotR motorcycle. It was awesome. I think it was at least $130,000. I don’t know how many they ended up selling, if any – but all I know is I didn’t get a sample of that!

What is your favorite product that was produced for Lord of the Rings?

That’s a tough one…that would be like asking which is your favorite child. I love all of the products we developed. Some more than others, of course. The cornerstone of my collection is a life-size Smeagol that Richard Taylor, Tania Rodgers, and Weta Workshop handmade and sent it to us as a wedding gift. They tried to get it to the wedding reception thinking how funny it would be, but as luck would have it, it got delayed in Customs for some reason. He’s a part of our family now and I get to take him as a dependent on my taxes. Years later, Weta made it as a product.

Will you share any memorable stories about your time working on LOTR?

I have a few…

Toy Fair 2001 – my first toy fair at New Line Cinema. My boss hosted a birthday dinner for Richard Taylor and company at the Bryant Grill on 42nd Street. Who knew 20 years later, we’d still be close friends. Great company, great food and the beginning of relationships that would last well beyond Mount Doom.

San Diego Comicon 2003.  We had a big booth there to promote RotK and we brought a number of cast members for signings. Richard Taylor came up with about 10 of his Weta Workshop staffers ranging from Daniel Falconer to John Harvey. We all went to a party in what used to be a church that one of the smaller comic book companies was putting on. It was insane and the group from Wellington had never had such an experience before. Anyway, I found myself hanging with the cast and the entire Weta group. Andy Serkis was talking and arguing with himself as Smeagol and Gollum. Dom Monaghan and Elijah Wood were with us. Sean Astin - I had spent some time with before the party, but he didn’t join us for some reason. Anyway, we all ended up crammed into someone’s apartment to finish out the night and I literally had to cab it back to my hotel, sleep for an hour and then head to the airport. Crazy night indeed. One I’ll never forget.

Toy line planning with Peter Jackson – periodically, I would work out the reveal plan with Peter Jackson. If there was an opportunity to do it in person, we would. One time we met for breakfast. Another time I had to catch him after a book signing before he got in a limo. We would work out the line-ups and if there were any characters that he wanted to hold for the theatrical release or that just wouldn’t be designed in time. The big holdout for FotR was the Balrog. Unfortunately, this led up to the Toy Biz version never getting made because we received final reference too late. I saw it, it was amazing – but Toy Biz would have probably not recouped the mold making costs involved. Gollum/Smeagol was the big one for the TTT film. Shelob for film 3 along with some other characters.

August 2000 – I got to watch the rough cut of FotR in one of Peter Jackson’s houses/office. It was very rough, had temp music and I watched it on a 35 inch old school television – I came out of there – called my (now wife) and said – this movie is terrible, I have to get a new job. Luckily they fixed everything and in November 2001 – I was invited to the New Line Cinema executive screening of the final FotR theatrical cut. All of the seats in this very small screening room were full, so I sat on a folding chair next to Mark Ordesky. Liv Tyler was there with her Dad. The top 12 New Line NYC execs were there. We watched the film and when the end credits rolled, I had tears coming down my cheeks. They did it. It was beautiful and amazing.

August 2003 – I was invited to watch the 4.5 hour long first cut of RotK with the execs. It was very hard to watch as it was largely unfinished. I was there to take notes for merchandising. After we watched the film, our CEO Bob Shaye invited the entire group to lunch and he wanted feedback from every person that was there. I wasn’t prepared, so I quickly wrote my own notes while they were going around the table and by the time they got to me - I was able to present really good feedback and ideas. A number of them ended up influencing the final film. It was Mark Ordesky’s job to bring all of the feedback to Peter Jackson and make the changes (and cut the film down as well for the theatrical release). It was incredible to be a part of that.

What are you up to these days?

Well, leaving Middle-earth was a big loss for me, not only for my career, but from an emotional standpoint. I invested so much of my career being involved and doing everything in my ability to protect this property - and suddenly it was all yanked away from me in 2014. A few colleagues suggested I try to work with Amazon on the new LotR series, but for some reason – no one returned my calls. My wealth of knowledge and experience surely could have benefitted them. I look forward to seeing what they create.

I was fortunate enough to get a marketing position at a great architectural and engineering firm near our house. They’ve been in business since 1933, they do incredible work, and everyone there is wonderful. No politics, just a great collaborative atmosphere. In the five years I’ve been there, I’ve seen the company double in size and it’s amazing to see how well they care for the employees. But know this - there is never a day that I don’t miss Middle-earth. You just can’t erase 15 years – especially that amazing experience!